Recently I responded to a Facebook “friends page” concerning a blog he posted with regards to the Pagan Roots in Christmas.

He made a comment stating facebook not being the forum for us to discuss our dispute, so I have brought it into another setting to allow my subscribers to participate in this discussion.

I am exercising my scriptural responsibility and posting my response to his last group of responses here on my blog in an open manner where all can post. I do not believe in deleting posts. Even those which may disagree with my position on things.

The scripture says this:

Romans 10:13 –15 (KJV)

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

It is my job as a sent one of God to preach his Gospel in totality. To preach the gospel of God in season and out of season as Paul told Timothy, and be ready to give an answer to every man that asks me a reason of the hope that is in me.

2 Timothy 4:2 –5 (KJV)

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

1 Peter 3:15 –17 (KJV)

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

If you would like to read the original conversation and text to bring yourself up to speed you can download a pdf file of it here. Facebook | Tim Cross Blog

For clarity sake, I will post his comments in italics and respond in kind.

Tim Cross:
I would say simply that if that’s where you are then that’s where you are. This is proably not the format for saying what I want to say. However let me say this.. and I beleive you know this ..woman of God

PROBLEM #1:

This discourse was made public the minute he posted his blog and encouraged comments.

If the discourse is made on a public blog and we are discussing it back and forth, at what point does it need to become of a different format? As a matter of fact, what exactly is the proper format for the discussion, if not in the setting where it began?

Tim Cross:
No one is going to go to hell because of sinining…!!! You dont go to hell because of what you do!!! You go to hell becaue of who you are!! You will go hell…because you are a sinner!!!!! period… That’s Bible!…if you want to accept it or not. We are saved because of God’s grace….not by works!….(or because we aint got a tree with presents under it!!) you surprize me.

I want to make one thing clear before we continue: which you will notice throughout our entire discourse. There is no mention of the Word of God as a support for the things which he speaks so strongly? ZERO SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT!

Luke 4:4 (KJV)

And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

In Luke 4 Yeshua responds to one who loves to interject his own ideas (Satan) avoiding the facts of the Word of God. But even Satan used the Word of God during the conversation with Yeshua…. How can any believer live apart from the Word of God? It is not possible! How can we hold a discussion about the things of God without ever making a reference to what He has to say on the subject?

Romans 10:17 (KJV)

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Hebrews 11:6 (KJV)

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

This alone gives reason for red flags. God’s family lives by his words and not the words of everyone else.

Yeshua said this:

John 10:27 –30 (KJV)

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one.

God’s Word is the manual for life, not man’s ideas or what he thinks it should be.

The Book of Proverbs clears this false mindset up for any who will hear.

Proverbs 14:12 (KJV)

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Proverbs 16:25 (KJV)

There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Proverbs 29:25 (KJV)

The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe.

and the famous….

Proverbs 3:5 –8 (KJV)

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.

The “preacher” says people won’t go to hell for sinning: He’s says it will be because of who they are..

Let us first define the word sin:

Sin
Greek – hamartia , a falling away from or missing the right path).

To be completely accurate we must use his exact words. The Word he actually used was sinning which means a continual falling away from or a continual missing the right path.. Sinning would be a continual act, this continual act tags the person who continues in this act as a sinner. Who the person is is what the person does continually…..

WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY?

Let’s Start with the Old Testament AND Reinforce it with the New Testament:

Adam in the Garden:

Genesis 2:16 –17 (KJV)

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

What brings death? SIN!!!!

Romans 6:23 (KJV)

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Cain and Abel:

Genesis 4:3 –5 (KJV)

And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

Genesis 4:6 –8 (KJV)

And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

1 John 3:15 (KJV)

Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Noah and the people of his day:

Genesis 6:9, 11-13 (KJV)

These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

OK, WE DON’T HAVE THE TIME TO GO ON AND ON AND ON…

I don’t understand how one can separate what one does from who they are? A person who steals (ing) is a thief. A person who lies (-ying) is a liar. What you do is the fruit of who you are. The two go hand in hand. The bottom line is sin separates us from God. Yeshua came to destroy the works of the devil, (sin is one of those works) thus restoring us back to the Father.

The discourse with this guy completely reminded me of how the Pharisees and Sadducees were always trying to play on words when having a discourse with Yeshua. Trying to catch him up. They had no clue what the Word of God meant other than the points of the law in their raw form. But, no depth of what the law was for or that it was God’s way of giving an unruly people a way to get to him.

This “preacher” says that man will not go to hell for what he does (sin)….

Hebrews 12:14 –17 (KJV)

Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

2 Corinthians 6:14 –18 (KJV)

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

2 Corinthians 7:1 (KJV)

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

There is no dispute that salvation (the gift) is not received based on our works

Romans 5:6 (KJV)

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Romans 5:8 (KJV)

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 5:19 –21 (KJV)

For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

SALVATION:

so-tay-ree’-ah
rescue or safety (physically or morally):—deliver, health, salvation, save, saving.

But it is maintained by our obedience (works) to the Word of God.

Philemon 2:12 –16 (KJV)

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

Revelation 3:5 (KJV)

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Yet after you’ve received salvation (the gift) YOU MUST WORK IT OUT… MAINTAIN IT, DO WHAT’S NECESSARY TO ACCOMPLISH..

WORK: (Greek)

katergazomai
kat-er-gad’-zom-ahee
to work fully, that is, accomplish; by implication to finish, fashion:—cause, do (deed), perform, work (out)

1st – 3rd John is clear on how we as believers ought to live and gives clear insight into who is and who is not the Father’s.

Tim Cross:
The word worship means : to give something more worth ….than something else. I dont know about you..I dont know of any real christians that are worshiping trees!! You have got to be kidding!

What worship had to do with our conversation I know not, but it was mentioned. Since it was mentioned let us find out what the Word of God has to say about WORSHIP.

Worship is not defined as acceptable based on man’s opinion but by God’s standard.

GOD’S STANDARD OF WORSHIP IS IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH:

John 4:23 –24 (KJV)

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

IN SPIRIT:

You allowing the Holy Spirit of God to lead your worship. That means you give him what he desires and not just whatever everyone else is doing or what you want to give him. To many do this, expecting he should just receive them.

How did that work out for CAIN?

IN TRUTH:

Truth is the Word of God. So everything true believers do should be done according to his word. Without these two elements there is no Worship of the Father. There is worship of something or someone else….

So how does putting a tree in our houses and decorating it worship him in spirit or in truth? But being led of his spirit and following his word is what he desires and what he seeks…

Deuteronomy 12:31 –32 (KJV)

Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Back to his comments:

Tim Cross:
Krstal..you and I can take any group of verses and make it fit anything that we want

Having the ability to do something doesn’t mean that one will do it. My choice is to live by the Word of God. Not by the whims of men. Therefore, it is not my nature to take the Word of God and twist it. I have and will continue to give clear reference to the Word of God, when discussing anything. Why, because his truth is what makes men free. Not the modified lies of men.

Tim Cross:
…so your verses that you quote is entirely out of context. The point that any good Bible schloray knows is that you have to 1. teaches as a whole!! Not just one or two verses that you quote..but if that’s where you are..then that’s where you are.

I am still trying to work this one out in my head. Because we have the ability to do evil, it means that I have done evil, as he disagrees with my choice of scripture. NOTE: he doesn’t disagree with the origins of the holiday, just my choice of scripture. Yet, he uses none.

If you check out the PDF you will clearly see that not only did I use more the a few verses of scripture, I also used them in context. Yet the context is disputed. He gives no correction to my “error” or misusing context, so to speak. He just says that I misused the Word of God, because, again, he doesn’t want to accept what God said.

Galatians 6:1 (KJV)

Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Tim Cross:
There is NOBODY that will stand before God and he says: Oh…you are not my child because you had a Christams Tree..I cant let you in…that’s not the BIble I read and study. You have tottally misrepresented the Old Testament … Read Moreverses..totally!!

HERE IS THE BOTTOM LINE TO IT ALL…..

Matthew 7:13 –23 (KJV)

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Here is some more working out your salvation:

Matthew 7:24 –27 (KJV)

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Tim Cross:
But like I said this isnt the forum..or the format for it. By the way…the Sheperds celebrate the birht of Christ…it’s recorded in scripture….

I am posting the Word of God for your review and you tell me where it says that the Shepherds celebrated the birth of Christ.

Luke 2:7 –20 (KJV)

And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. (Praising the Father in heaven, not the baby…READ IT!)And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us. (GOING TO SEE, AND CELEBRATING ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. THE BIRTH OF THE SAVIOR WAS PROPHESIED IN THE OLD TESTAMENT AND THEY WERE GOING TO SEE WITH THEIR EYES THE FULFILLMENT OF THE PROPHECY. HOW IS THAT A CELEBRATION?) And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger. And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child. (STILL NO PARTY/CELEBRATION. THEY WENT AND PUBLISHED WHAT WAS TOLD TO THEM TO PEOPLE ABROAD) And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds. But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart. And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them. (THEN THEY WENT BACK TO TENDING TO THEIR FLOCKS, GLORIFYING GOD (THE FATHER IN HEAVEN) FOR ALL THAT THEY HAD HEARD AND SEEN)

I’d say this scripture is a perfect example of a previous quote of his:

Tim Cross:
“Krstal..you and I can take any group of verses and make it fit anything that we want”

but hey..if that’s your mission to let people know they aint going to heaven because they Celebrate what you deem as pagan holiday…..go ahead..I’l continue to work with addicts, homeless people, weekly…those that care less whose got a tree or not..those who want to know that a God loved them so much …he gave his only son to die for them…caus ehe wasnt mad at them….but he was (and is) mad about them!! becaue like Paul says..show them the sam comfort…that you received..

You dismantle the rest… I’m bored with this guy. COMPLETELY!!!

Jeremiah 10:2 –4 (KJV)

Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

If he commanded you to NOT LEARN THEIR WAYS, then learning and observing their ways is considered sin to him. Yah think????

This is why you must be spiritually sharp and aware of what the Word of God says. This is a man who stands in a pulpit and preaches to others the “supposed gospel.” (????)

BEWARE!!!!

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